Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Hexapod Robots

Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby paulp » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:21 pm

An upgradeable kit...

I for one think its a good approach
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby plingboot » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:17 am

Hi Matt,
Again coming from the point of view of a robot collector (rather than specialist tech head), the 'form' of the hexapod is very important to me.
I've fancied a hex' for a while, but nothing took my fancy until Lynxmotion released their Phoenix - which i've almost finished building now.

I think a hex' should look very insect like and of the upper and lower plates you've shown, i prefer design 2 from your first post, but also like the very sculpted plates used on V4b. I'd also like to see tibia similar iC Hex and femur with a good curve and an obvious bulge at the servo mount.

Price is also going to be a consideration. The lynxmotion Phoenix 'plate pack' (upper lower body, 6 femur, 6 tibia, screw hardware - in funky imperial sizes, switch harness, rubber feet circuit board stand-offs) comes in at $85ish. The femur and tibia seem to be of a similar thickness to your hex' but the servo and body plates are much thinner.

Have you a rough feel for:
1. the cost of the chassis (plates, legs, servo mounts, assembly harware)
2. the difference in cost between a more complex and a simple body plates
3. cost finished and unfinished
4. cost of electronics (minus servos) and software required to get the hex' walking

There's nothing like ball park figures to help focus.

Finally, throwing a curve ball into the mix - what would you think about creating some kind of vacuum formed lexan body bubble (similar to ones used on rc cars) to cover any exposed boards and accentuate the insect like form?
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby ucaboys » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:16 pm

Matt,
Is it alright if I use your drawing and post an alternative shape for the body plates ??
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby Matt Denton » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:28 pm

ucaboys wrote:Matt,
Is it alright if I use your drawing and post an alternative shape for the body plates ??


Sure, but I should warn you I'm pretty fussy and also nearing design completion ;)
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby Coilgunpower » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:06 pm

About the Phoenix hexapod... They sell the main body for $85 but they through a surprise at you when you need 6 sets of servo brackets that cost $12 for a total $156.65 without anything.

This one will be one complete body right, all the parts in one kit? I plan to buy this kit and then buy the servos one at a time when I can find deals. 8-)

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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby Matt Denton » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:11 pm

plingboot wrote:Price is also going to be a consideration. The lynxmotion Phoenix 'plate pack' (upper lower body, 6 femur, 6 tibia, screw hardware - in funky imperial sizes, switch harness, rubber feet circuit board stand-offs) comes in at $85ish. The femur and tibia seem to be of a similar thickness to your hex' but the servo and body plates are much thinner.


So far my hardware kit looks as follows:
1 x Upper body plate
1 x Lower body plate
6 x Upper Coxa plate
6 x Lower Coxa plate
6 x Femur
6 x Tibia
6 x Rubber feet
4 x Rubber base feet
Spacers, Snap rivets & Fittings for assy

May also include:
1 x 9V PP3 battery draw

All aluminium parts will be 3mm 5053 grade, anodized in black or silver. I'm waiting for a sample back from the anodizer, slightly concerned about the finish, water-cut aluminium does not cut as clean as a CNC router, so the parts are put into a barrel rumbler which smooths all the edges off. This is great for getting rid of burrs and cleaning up cuts, but does leave the metal looking a dull grey, hopefully the anodizing will bring it back to life a bit!

plingboot wrote:Have you a rough feel for:
1. the cost of the chassis (plates, legs, servo mounts, assembly harware)
2. the difference in cost between a more complex and a simple body plates
3. cost finished and unfinished
4. cost of electronics (minus servos) and software required to get the hex' walking


1, Not yet, but it will be more than $85. In fact it will be more than £85. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you need to by the coxa servo mount brackets as an extra for the phoenix kit?
2, Unsure, but CNC routed complex plates will probably be around twice as much.
3, Do you mean the more complex routed option? if so, unsure at this point.
4, Electronics, I hope to get the p.Brain-ds24 in at approx £45, and the p.Brain-SMB at around £50. I haven't decided on a price for the p.Brain-hexapod engine as yet.


plingboot wrote:Finally, throwing a curve ball into the mix - what would you think about creating some kind of vacuum formed lexan body bubble (similar to ones used on rc cars) to cover any exposed boards and accentuate the insect like form?


I did play with this idea about 6 years back, when I dressed up one of my hexapods with vac-form shells, so maybe.. but it will be at the bottom of the list for now :)
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby Matt Denton » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:16 pm

Coilgunpower wrote:About the Phoenix hexapod... They sell the main body for $85 but they through a surprise at you when you need 6 sets of servo brackets that cost $12 for a total $156.65 without anything.

This one will be one complete body right, all the parts in one kit? I plan to buy this kit and then buy the servos one at a time when I can find deals. 8-)

Justin


Well I think you just answered one of my phoenix kit cost questions while I was writing the long post previous to this :)

It will be a complete body, but no electronics / servos. I will offer the kit with servos, which I will offer a deal on due to the quantity purchased.

One problem I suffer from in the UK, is the strong pound to dollar issue. It makes it impossible to compete with American prices, this is the main reason I have not released a kit to date!
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby plingboot » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:32 am

matt,
I'd be looking to buy the MSR-H01 as a chassis, electronics and software bundle - probably without servos. The best price i've found for the HS645mg's was £17each with free delivery from the far east - which i went for when building the phoenix. If you're able to get close to that i'd go for a complete package.

Again depending on price - i think i'd prefer to have a cnc'd chassis rather than a jet cut one. The Phoenix femur and tibia look to be jet cut - the quality is ok, but a country mile away from a cnc'd finish. If you go the cnc route - i'd be happy to have the parts as they come - rather than anodised

Do you plan to offer a reasonable amount of forum/documentation support for the software/programming/wireless control side - so people like me who generally know little to start with but are happy to read-up and learn?
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby Matt Denton » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:14 pm

plingboot wrote:matt,
I'd be looking to buy the MSR-H01 as a chassis, electronics and software bundle - probably without servos. The best price i've found for the HS645mg's was £17each with free delivery from the far east - which i went for when building the phoenix. If you're able to get close to that i'd go for a complete package.


£17 each.. wow! that's really cheap, not much more than I would pay for them trade! I guess the risk you take is getting hit on import duty and VAT.

My servo costs would be as follows:
12 x HS645MG servos £309.00, £25.75 ea.
6 x HS225MG servos £120.00, £20.00ea.
6 x HS225BB servos £93, £15.50ea

plingboot wrote:Again depending on price - i think i'd prefer to have a cnc'd chassis rather than a jet cut one. The Phoenix femur and tibia look to be jet cut - the quality is ok, but a country mile away from a cnc'd finish. If you go the cnc route - i'd be happy to have the parts as they come - rather than anodised


Water cut parts are CNC controlled, but due to the water cutting process, are not as accurate as CNC router cut. Also the edge finish on water-cut parts is no where near the quality of CNC router cut. If I make router cut special editions, they will come as is, straight off the machine with the plastic protective film still on them.

For those who are interested, the example below explains why CNC router cut parts are more expensive:

Material: 3mm 5053 Aluminium
Kit cut length: 13 meters

CNC Water-Cut
Cut Speed: approx 1000 mm / min
Passes: 1
Coolant: none

Kit Cut time: approximately 13 mins

Pros: Fast, Single pass, little tooling required.
Cons: Tolerance approx 0.2mm, cut edge has positive taper, Leaves burr on back face, can't pocket material.

CNC Router cut
Cut Speed: approx 500 mm/min
Passes: 3 or 4
Coolant: required

Kit Cut time: approximately 100 mins

Pros: Good clean parallel cut, Tolerance approx 0.01 or better, Can pocket material.
Cons: Slow, Coolant required, Cutters can break.

I have not taken the slew time into account on either of these as this is pretty much the same on either machine.

plingboot wrote:Do you plan to offer a reasonable amount of forum/documentation support for the software/programming/wireless control side - so people like me who generally know little to start with but are happy to read-up and learn?


Yup, that's exactly why I have started this forum rolling. :)
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Re: Hexapod Kit Design: MSR-H01

Postby plingboot » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:31 am

hi matt,
the difference in time between jet and router cut is much more than i imagined - so i can see why there'd be a hit on price :shock:
I guess that there's also a finishing cost involved with jet cut parts though - rumbling/de-burring and maybe anodising too - which might narrow the price difference?

I'd still be interested to know what a routed set would cost. ;)
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